Those running flex fuel get in here :)

[fubar569]

Initially I had a cold start and idle issue.

A couple quick remote revisions fixed that and it's been perfect ever since...even below 30* on E75 the other day.

I don't always warm the car up either. As soon as it comes off high idle and lines out we usually take off and go. Now I always make sure it's up to temp before flat beating the hell out of it...but for daily driving? Nope.

 

[FFBOS]

Just going to reply in bulk as I just read the whole post. I’m still not convinced the longevity is there for the e85 tuning. I also have e85 close and would tend to run e85 all the time. I don’t like the cold start rough idling and having to warm the car. Call me spoiled or just lazy I’m good with both. I have 11,000 miles now and drive this car in every situation as I feel the need. Maybe the tuning part is better now then it was 4 months ago when I contacted the tuners. The users can confirm.
You are mentioning timing up from your 93 tune but is it a aggressive tune? My 93 tune is maxed at 12/13 degrees but maybe your running 9 or something like that. Just looking at comparing race gas to e85/mix. What percentage do you need to surpass your race gas tune power wise.

Car fires up like stock. All in the toon.

 

[Speedy!]

@coolblue price depends on what you want to do. I'm running a 2.72 Hellraiser pulley which some said wasn't possible on 93 but mine's worked fine. I needed ID1000 injectors for that and got some used off the forum from someone who upgraded to 1300s. In cold air this fall I realized I was taxing the stock fuel pump so upgraded to the dual drop ins. That gave me some overhead to play with this. So if you already have a pulley injectors and pumps the price is just a tune.

@Maxboost my cold and hot start is like stock. The reason I've referenced timing in relation to my 93 tune is because every car and setup are different. 2.85 pulley cars will have a degree or two more timing on 93 than my 2.72 but I'd expect the same added timing on ethanol I'm seeing. Hope that makes sense. As of now I'm within 2.5deg max timing in my Renegade RM109 race tune. I don't plan on replacing race gas at the track though. I'm not there yet. This gives me an option on the street to have more knock resistance and some cooling effect for the street. If we didn't get anymore timing it's already a success, but we'll see how much gets added when it's all dialed in.

 

[coolblue]

@coolblue price depends on what you want to do. I'm running a 2.72 Hellraiser pulley which some said wasn't possible on 93 but mine's worked fine. I needed ID1000 injectors for that and got some used off the forum from someone who upgraded to 1300s. In cold air this fall I realized I was taxing the stock fuel pump so upgraded to the dual drop ins. That gave me some overhead to play with this. So if you already have a pulley injectors and pumps the price is just a tune. (QUOTE)

Thanks for the reply. I did see your vid on the pumps install. My plan right now would be a pulley and injectors on the RE (which I could easily handle mechanically myself), but the cost of just the tune. RE fortunately already has the 2 pumps as you know. I like you would want the added flexibility and power on the fly and not have to worry if I just had to fill up on 93 (or whatever mix winds up being in the tank) when on the street.

 

[Speedy!]

As for sensor vs no sensor, the only thing I can see is that say you had just run a tank of E85 and now you pull up to the 93 gas pump and drop in 10 gallons of 93. You would have to give the car a couple of minutes to figure out there was no longer E85 in the tank so you couldn't just go wide open throttle leaving the parking lot. Other than that scenario I don't see any real difference.

 

[FFBOS]

As for sensor vs no sensor, the only thing I can see is that say you had just run a tank of E85 and now you pull up to the 93 gas pump and drop in 10 gallons of 93. You would have to give the car a couple of minutes to figure out there was no longer E85 in the tank so you couldn't just go wide open throttle leaving the parking lot. Other than that scenario I don't see any real difference.

Yes. Having the innovative gauge is a nice “bonus” too for reading true content. I’m still waiting to test a bit more, but it’s looking to be about 5% lower than what a test tube would read.

 

[Speedy!]

With the way Mike@OST has my on board AFR gauge setup it's kinda like an alcohol content sensor LOL. It's a nice reference for me to know when I'm getting the good stuff. Now with near all E85 in the tank I see 9.5 - 9.6 at idle and cruise and 8.5 at WOT. Not exactly the same, but at least I'm not blind.

This may be a common way tuners set this up, but a buddy of mine that runs E85 in his Trackhawk does NOT have this. His reads 14s at idle and 11.0 at WOT on his dedicated E85 tune.

 

[Blkout]

I have no cold start issues on E85 other than it take a half second longer to start up when the weather is below 40F outside and my car has been sitting in cold temps for many hours. Where as it will fire up immediately on 93, on pure E85, it will turn over an extra time or two before starting but it idles fine even in the cold weather. This is on Curt's flex tune.

 

[Speedy!]

Have you guys running flex, sensor or inferred, logged how long it takes to go from a higher e85 content % to lower? I'm about to start testing that.

 

[fubar569]

I have no cold start issues on E85 other than it take a half second longer to start up. Where as it will fire up immediately on 93, on pure E85, it will turn over an extra time or two before starting but it idles fine even in the cold. This is on Curt's flex tune.

This is pretty accurate. I dont think mine takes any extra time at all but I'm probably desensitized to it. All I know is it fires every time and doesnt leave me going wtf.

Have you guys running flex, sensor or inferred, logged how long it takes to go from a higher e85 content % to lower? I'm about to start testing that.

Usually starts to adjust withina mile or two and levels out in 5-10 give or take.

Haven't had the laptop in the car yet this year but I doubt much has changed.

 

[MaxCarnage]

I’ve run e70/e85 for 15k straight. Believe it or not, I still look at the fuel before every fill up in my mason jar. I caught a gas station error with a “miss fill” in the e85 tanks. I just no longer use the test tube.

My 1D1300s have been fine. I change oil every 3k.

View attachment 16082

How often are you doing 3k miles? It'll take me 1-2 years to put on 3k miles, so trying to find a timeframe recommended oil changes with E85 and not just mileage. Example: Right now recommended is 5k miles or 6 months. With E85 should you change oil every 3 months/3k miles instead?

 

[Speedy!]

@MaxCarnage you need to get the car out more! Good question though.

Found this pretty interesting.

 

[FFBOS]

How often are you doing 3k miles? It'll take me 1-2 years to put on 3k miles, so trying to find a timeframe recommended oil changes with E85 and not just mileage. Example: Right now recommended is 5k miles or 6 months. With E85 should you change oil every 3 months/3k miles instead?

Few months maybe 3-4.

 

[FFBOS]

Have you guys running flex, sensor or inferred, logged how long it takes to go from a higher e85 content % to lower? I'm about to start testing that.

Be curious to see that data.

 

[MaxCarnage]

@Speedy!

Agree, wish I had more time to drive it. I pretty much only drive it on weekends, and winter stops me from driving it at least 4 months out of the year.

 

[FFBOS]

Mine is a different story. All seasons lol.

 

[Speedy!]

Good tests today. Was low on fuel. Log showed 78% alcohol from mixing down 93. I loaded Mike's latest and headed to the gas station. Added 10 gallons of measured E83 and in the log at 2 minutes 43 seconds it picked up the change and went to 82% then stabilized at 86%. We'll finalize timing and fueling and start testing going back down to 93 next.

 

[Blkout]

Good tests today. Was low on fuel. Log showed 78% alcohol from mixing down 93. I loaded Mike's latest and headed to the gas station. Added 10 gallons of measured E83 and in the log at 2 minutes 43 seconds it picked up the change and went to 82% then stabilized at 86%. We'll finalize timing and fueling and start testing going back down to 93 next.

Not surprised, I've always noticed my in car AF gauge shows the ethanol change rather quickly, within 2 minutes.

 

[FFBOS]

Good info

 

[Speedy!]

Ok ran some good logs to get what I think is the final test on the ID1000 injectors, dual pumps, and full E85.

Ambient temp was about 55 deg F, car made 17.5psi, aircharge 1800+ (good air), log read 86% alcohol. Inj DC never went over 82%, fuel pump DC 78%, and 80psi fuel pressure at 6500 RPM. In 30 degree air I might see another 5% give or take, so I'm approaching the limit of these injectors, but they're not at, or over, the limit so good news I can save a few bucks and not have to buy more injectors as long as I stay with just the 2.72 upper pulley.

So with this test the alcohol content has a lot more to do with the injector DC than the actual air or air temp from what I found. My testing had the following results on the ID1000s. The newer version of these is the 1050x and I think flow about 5% more fuel on top of what I'm getting on these 1000s so people with those will be in even better shape, especially if you're on a 2.85 pulley. You will definitely need the dual pumps though.

E57 - 70% DC and +3 deg timing over 93
E78 - 75% DC and +5 deg timing over 93
E86 - 82% DC and +5 deg timing over 93 (so far not sure if we'll add more or not)