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Audio upgrade questions

Diboblo

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#21
I've read about this (other forum) I think it was 2016? I'm assuming the newer cars would be complaint with the updated software. Never know though I guess. Would be nice if a software issue was the problem and a re-flash could dramatically improve things.
Well, I found the TSB I ran acrsoss, last night. It's for 2015 RA3 & RA4 and includes some pretty heavy duty enhancements. I don't think it's for audio imaging, but I'll attache it here, for transparency.

Bob
 


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#22
Interesting. In the past was into serious audio modifications. I think the HK in the Charger is alright, but not stellar. Don't really have the option for the dual box though because I use the well for storing non-OEM equipment I keep with me. If it was a total waste of time, I might reconsider it, but as noted, I think it's okay. I don't live in the car.

However, there is a continuing problem that was present from day one and which was not corrected when I had to have the head unit replaced under warranty: When I play music off USB stick, which is nearly all the time, when you get in and start the car (or start remote) the subwoofer channel is dead (no sound). Open the media screen on the head unit, switch to any other source (like bluetooth, whatever) and then back to the USB stick and the subwoofer channel is fine. You can turn the car off for short periods (like going into a store or whatever) and come back out without having to do the "switch source" trick to regain the SW channel, but after a certain amount of time (I've never tracked down exactly how long) you do have to use the trick again if you've been away from the car too long.

Any I idea why this is? My guess is just manufacturing defect in the amp circuitry / chip (don't see how it could be the head unit since it was swapped). I stumbled on that by accident and I would not be surprised if some of the folks who are complaining that the HK system in the HC has no bass may be experiencing the same thing.
 


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ACMAVRO

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#23
I wonder if this is a charger issue more than challenger? I know the equipment is supposed to be the same. I had beats in my charger and it did not sound good at all turned up more than 1/2 with door panels rattling and all. My challenger Hk sounds great and for what it’s worth my ram and Durango both sound really good turned up and they both have low grade stock systems.
 


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Thread Starter #24
Interesting. In the past was into serious audio modifications. I think the HK in the Charger is alright, but not stellar. Don't really have the option for the dual box though because I use the well for storing none OEM equipment I keep with me. If it was a total waste of time, I might reconsider it, but as noted, I think it's okay. I don't live in the car.

However, there is a continuing problem that was present from day one and which was not corrected when I had to have the head unit replaced under warranty: When I play music off USB stick, which is nearly all the time, when you get in and start the car (or start remote) the subwoofer channel is dead (no sound). Open the media screen on the head unit, switch to any other source (like bluetooth, whatever) and then back to the USB stick and the subwoofer channel is fine. You can turn the car off for short periods (like going into a store or whatever) and come back out without having to do the "switch source" trick to regain the SW channel, but after a certain amount of time (I've never tracked down exactly how long) you do have to use the trick again if you've been away from the car too long.

Any I idea why this is? My guess is just manufacturing defect in the amp circuitry / chip (don't see how it could be the head unit since it was swapped). I stumbled on that by accident and I would not be surprised if some of the folks who are complaining that the HK system in the HC has no bass may be experiencing the same thing.
I don't think you are alone. I've read a lot lately while trying to figure out what to do and saw complaints exactly like you describe. I don't think mine does this but I'll play with it a bit in the future to be sure.
 


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#25
Spending 4K now to solve the problem....amp replacement did not correct nor did "software upgrade" performed at dealer. Absolutely worst audio system I have ever had. The audio system made me not want to drive the car anywhere but to the track. ;)

AmpPRO Amplifier Interface Module
Alpine
Alpine
Alpine
MM1042DVC X2 for trunk

PSM Digital Sound Processor | Arc Audio to tune all of this

Misc cords cables ETC.

Custom MDF box in trunk for subs!
I did this a couple years ago and it has been great.


I did also add Alexa auto......
 


fubar569

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#26
I am that JL acs110lg-tw1 in the trunk guy.

I tapped BOTH 6x9's in the back and have seen no degradation in performance or response. I can only surmise that the JL amp is somehow taking care of this internally.

The factory will roll off bass. I've experienced it. They will also roll off highs too but you wont care too much about that. A LC2i wouldnt hurt but I'm gonna be honest...if you get to the point its needed...its loud. REALLY loud. Coming from a guy that used to roll with 4 Comp 15's and 1100w in his deville.

NOTE: I have the base alpine audio.
 


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Thread Starter #27
I am that JL acs110lg-tw1 in the trunk guy.

I tapped BOTH 6x9's in the back and have seen no degradation in performance or response. I can only surmise that the JL amp is somehow taking care of this internally.

The factory will roll off bass. I've experienced it. They will also roll off highs too but you wont care too much about that. A LC2i wouldnt hurt but I'm gonna be honest...if you get to the point its needed...its loud. REALLY loud. Coming from a guy that used to roll with 4 Comp 15's and 1100w in his deville.

NOTE: I have the base alpine audio.
That sounds good. I hope this works out as well with the HK system.

I've acquired a JL acs110lg-tw1 and fit it to the foam spare tire well insert. I trimmed the foam instead of the cover and cut an access hole in the side next to the battery for wiring. I've tapped the center woofer on the rear deck from the HK system and will leave the factory woofer unplugged. Need some time to get back to the project and wire up power and ground to the amp.

If it doesn't sound good I can try tapping one or both of the outboard speakers on the deck. As a last resort, adding a LC2i. If none of that works well, start saving up for a real replacement. Not liking the thought of putting $4k or so into a car that I already paid $2k for an upgraded sound system. Probably will though if that is what it takes as this is a long term car...but the Charger Redeye is looking nice...arghh! I'm hopping the the JL works well enough.
 


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#28
I also cut the panel and made a screen to let the bass out....the amp is mounted to a panel with the extinguisher and the air compressor
 


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#29
That factory air compressor makes me laugh. I shit canned mine within a week and stowed one of my Vair's in there. Now, of course, in 30 years when my descendants are auctioning off my classic hellcat they'll lose 75,000 in value because I tossed that cheap POS.
 


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Thread Starter #30
I also cut the panel and made a screen to let the bass out....the amp is mounted to a panel with the extinguisher and the air compressor
Thant looks real nice and clean. Might keep this in mind for a future mod. I like having an extinguisher in the car as well.
 


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#31
The compressor works to bring the pressure back up when at the track..20 to 32 ..probably useless with a true flat
 


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Thread Starter #32
A little update:

I completed installing the 10" JL ACS110LG-TW1. Set the turn on to DC signal (using high level inputs) and the amp does seem to turn on and off as desired without the need for running a remote trigger. It likely would be easy to use a power on ignition from the nearby fuse box if a remote trigger was desired.

I used the HK center woofer to tap signal and soldered the positive wire to both LH and RH positive high level inputs on the JL wire harness. Did the same to the negative. I think the amp would sum the inputs if it was driven by a stereo source but I was worried that if I only fed one side (like used LH but nothing on RH) that it might result in less power? Don't know if that would have been the case but splitting off into both seems to have worked out fine.

I cut out foam in the tire well and didn't trim the well cover in order for the cover to sit flush. I cut a hole in the side so I could lift out the foam well with amp in it and make adjustments easily (left some service length on the wiring to facilitate this). The amp fits very snugly and I didn't want to deal with the wires getting wedged in and possibly pulling on the connections when installing or removing the sub. JL provides a nice plug for the power, ground and remote wire that can be easily removed through the hole. The high level inputs also have a plug with a wire harness. It would only take a few moments to disconnect and remove the sub if desired. I used inline taps on the center HK woofer wires and left the speaker unplugged. If desired this will all be very easy to put back to stock with nothing cut or permanently modified except for the foam in the well. I took power direct from the batter post connector and for ground used a body ground that the battery ground goes to (so its basically direct to battery.)

I did nothing to provide better path for bass into the cabin like cutting a hole in the well cover and removing the factory woofer. I might in the future if it seems like more thump is needed.

I've only done a little tweaking so far with the crossover settings and the input sensitivity with surround off and the equalizer settings on the head unit set to flat. I also ended up setting the output polarity to 180 out as it sounded better. Who knows what HK did with the fazing so its nice that its just a flick of a switch to change it on the amp.

So, my initial impression is good. The install is easy with only the under rear deck cover requiring removal and its just held in by push pins. The wiring is minimal and all in the truck area. Easy return to stock if needed. No trunk space above the cover is lost. You can still get your factory tire inflation thing in its slot in the foam well. Cost, less than $600 for the sub and an amp wiring kit. As for sound, much better bass hit and much cleaner. I think the system does roll it off bass a little at full volume but its good enough for me. Its not going to rattle out your filings but its surprisingly good. I'll have to go on a nice cruise to evaluate further but its sounding good so far.
 


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#33
Interesting write up. You mention cut a hole in the side to lift out the foam well with amp in it. I can't picture this - cut hole in side of what? Also, are you not concerned about air flow with the amp and the foam together? Back in the day (like 35 years ago) I was always a little bit over board on ease of cooling. Have a photo? Sure teh problem is I cannot picture it in my mind.

Only other comment is "it's not going to rattle your fillings." To me, this is a good thing. I was always after fidelity, not volume (even used fibre optics at one point for maximum fidelity in transmission) and rattling crap in the car is not what it is about for me. And rattling anything would be a no no (not to mention lining up for "get your free hearing aid test here!" a little early). The only thing that ever rattled was on a hot rod Camaro and at about 3/4 volume the pull down license plate (to expose the gas cap) would pop away from the back of the car about three inches or so on each, tight, well spaced, well placed, well defined hit. If I was in CA I'd drive over to check out your system, just for old times sake.

Keep up the good work, and preserve that hearing! :)
 


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Thread Starter #34
Interesting write up. You mention cut a hole in the side to lift out the foam well with amp in it. I can't picture this - cut hole in side of what? Also, are you not concerned about air flow with the amp and the foam together? Back in the day (like 35 years ago) I was always a little bit over board on ease of cooling. Have a photo? Sure teh problem is I cannot picture it in my mind.

Only other comment is "it's not going to rattle your fillings." To me, this is a good thing. I was always after fidelity, not volume (even used fibre optics at one point for maximum fidelity in transmission) and rattling crap in the car is not what it is about for me. And rattling anything would be a no no (not to mention lining up for "get your free hearing aid test here!" a little early). The only thing that ever rattled was on a hot rod Camaro and at about 3/4 volume the pull down license plate (to expose the gas cap) would pop away from the back of the car about three inches or so on each, tight, well spaced, well placed, well defined hit. If I was in CA I'd drive over to check out your system, just for old times sake.

Keep up the good work, and preserve that hearing! :)
I'll try to grab some pictures soon, knew I should have while doing it but yeah, didn't. Basically the sub fits snugly in the foam spare tire area tray side to side. There is room aft and forward of it. The wiring to the sub exits the passenger side next to the battery. So I cut a rectangular hole in the LH side of the foam tire well insert for the wires to pass through. Also this is where the crossover, input sensitivity, and other controls are on the amp. This way you can get to all this with out having to lift out the sub (as its wedged in there quite snug) and can just lift the entire foam insert with it up.

I also like a clean tight bass sound not overpowering booms rattling the car apart. Definitely hate rattles and would like to prevent making them. The stock system to me sounded like it was trying to produce too much bass and failed horribly. It was dirty and loose. Maybe to be expected from a cheap free air woofer. Also, the rear deck would rattle a little. I unplugged the factory woofer, problem solved. With this sub you can adjust the input sensitivity (gain) to your liking anywhere from mild to wild. I'm at about 3/4 and will probably turn it down just a tad. The bass side of the head unit equalizer also effects bass output for on the fly adjustment if desired. I'm still playing with things but I think I'll leave the bass setting on the head unit flat or maybe a few bars low in order to keep the door speakers from trying and failing to make decent bass sounds. Then keeping the amp input sensitivity up a bit to compensate. Ideally all lower frequencies would go only to it and only mid frequencies to the doors but that is not an option. Oh, you can get a remote bass control for the amp as an additional option if desired but would have to run it all the way up to the dash.

Good advise on the hearing. Mine has already suffered some damage from years of working in loud environments. I do try more now to protect them as my youthful invincibility has clearly left me. Like you, I just want pleasant sounds not looking to play music for anyone else, hurt the car or my hearing.

Unfortunately the HK system still has many undesirable issues but at least now the bass is good.

This is a humble sound mod and probably not worth much of a drive but if you were around I'd certainly be happy to show you. Promise I'll work on a few pictures soon.
 


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Thread Starter #35
Interesting write up. You mention cut a hole in the side to lift out the foam well with amp in it. I can't picture this - cut hole in side of what? Also, are you not concerned about air flow with the amp and the foam together? Back in the day (like 35 years ago) I was always a little bit over board on ease of cooling. Have a photo? Sure teh problem is I cannot picture it in my mind.

Only other comment is "it's not going to rattle your fillings." To me, this is a good thing. I was always after fidelity, not volume (even used fibre optics at one point for maximum fidelity in transmission) and rattling crap in the car is not what it is about for me. And rattling anything would be a no no (not to mention lining up for "get your free hearing aid test here!" a little early). The only thing that ever rattled was on a hot rod Camaro and at about 3/4 volume the pull down license plate (to expose the gas cap) would pop away from the back of the car about three inches or so on each, tight, well spaced, well placed, well defined hit. If I was in CA I'd drive over to check out your system, just for old times sake.

Keep up the good work, and preserve that hearing! :)
As for cooling, I'll have to see how it goes. There are no fans on the amp. The area that it is mounted in doesn't have a ton of space. I'm not very familiar with this type of unit or how much heat it might make. JL says:
__________
Amplified Subwoofer System with Single 10TW1-0.25 Subwoofer (Note: that is 1/4 ohm driver), Built-In 400W Class D Amplifier, Black Carpet - Sealed Enclosure
In PowerWedge+™ systems, the power is built right into the subwoofer system. Housing a proprietary Class D amplifier, this subwoofer system employs our exclusive DCD™ amplifier technology to extract maximum output from its specially engineered, ultra low-impedance TW1 driver. By combining direct power conversion with an ultra-high current output section, DCD™ amplifiers are free of conventional switching power supplies, enabling them to generate remarkable power with unprecedented efficiency.
__________
They say in the manual that the unit is up to 94% efficient and thus operates much cooler. It also says to install in a well ventilated area.

So, I guess I'll see if cooling is an issue. Fubar569 (above post) has this unit in the same place, hopefully he has had no issues? If there are issues, I could do something like Go Goody (above post with picture) did with a screen installed on the well cover. I also tend to worry about cooling and usually overdo electronic related projects with more cooling than likely necessary. Anyway, its a good point and I will have to see how it goes.
 


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#36
Same place.

No hole in the side.

No issues.

You can try to drop some bass blockers on the front door channels but if you cant get to the amp and need to pull the door card? May as well replace the speaker while you're there.
 


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#37
20180721_190020.jpg 20180721_190045.jpg
 


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Thread Starter #38
Thank you fubar569 you're posts were what led me in this direction.
Took a few pics as promised: View attachment Side Cut.JPG
Access cut in the side of the foam insert, extra wire so insert can be pulled up for Amp adjustments. All wiring at the amp has plugs (a design feature of the amp) so a quick removal is possible with no loose wires floating around. The rearward floor (towards back of car) of the foam insert was shaved down so that the cover will fit flush as the speaker grill is too tall. Other option is to clearance the cover as shown by fubar569 in prior post.
View attachment Partialy Up.JPG
This is the foam insert tilted up. This is all you need to do to make amp adjustments.

View attachment Installed Side.JPG
Shows wiring exiting the side of the foam insert with it lowered in place.

View attachment Installed Cover Up.JPG
What it looks like all installed with the cover hinged up.

View attachment After Shot.JPG
Installation completed and cover stowed.
 


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#39
I do like it more than mine. Not gonna lie. Not sure what my thought process was for modifying the lid vs the tray. I think it was because if I eliminated the tray I could fit the 12" version and it was an exercise in self-restraint.

I do think the 10" is a perfect compliment for the stock system for a much more accurate and pronounced low end without breaking the bank.
 


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Thread Starter #40
I do like it more than mine. Not gonna lie. Not sure what my thought process was for modifying the lid vs the tray. I think it was because if I eliminated the tray I could fit the 12" version and it was an exercise in self-restraint.

I do think the 10" is a perfect compliment for the stock system for a much more accurate and pronounced low end without breaking the bank.
Again thanks for documenting your install. Its nice having a community sharing this stuff. We can benefit from taking someones work and modifying it if we like. Its a big reassurance that something will work in our cars thanks to those that have gone before.

I was also thinking about the 12" version but agree that the 10" really is a perfect fit for the stock system.

I went for a bit of a drive and was very pleased. Much much better, music is actually an enjoyable experience in this thing now! Admittedly, I did turn it all way down several times as it was a beautiful day, the roads were not busy and there was some air out opportunities. The engine noise IS amazing :p
 




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