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Mustang Boss 302 - Any prev owners

salopian

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#1
Hi my American friends. I don't know who to ask really and thought about you guys.

I have the opportunity to aquire an original 302 boss 1970. Matching numbers/restored in grabber blue.

I have always fancied an oldie in my life but put off with the amount of crap that comes over the pond. Its at a showroom atm so going to try and pop down and see it next week.

Pretty much going to be a swapsie for my 16 HC. Just a few grand his way (In negotiations still).

I'm debating it, I don't think I'll get this opportunity to own such an iconic car in my life.... However I love my HC 😂🤣
 

Old Mopar Guy

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#2
Fwiw if its as nice as you believe it will continue to appreciate while the HC depreciates. You could always get another HC as there are plenty more than Boss Mustangs...and they are still being made. If you want the Boss this might be your time. They are not going to get anymore available or cheaper.
 

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#3
If it has a Philco radio, go for it!

Just kidding, I'd jump at any 70's muscle car in a hearbeat if I had the room (and $).

The only thing, however I'd be driving it only to and from meets, or only anywhere where it won't leave my sight. Highway's unless deserted, forget it; stone chip magnet. Every time I drive over to London Ontario where my son lives (2 hours away from Brampton), I seem to be adding another to my stone chip collection.
 

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#4
1970 Boss 302 is cool. Agree with Old Mopar Guy regarding there being fewer fully restored/numbers matching Boss 302's than Hellcats. Your heart, and other various senses, will guide you. Make sure you have the info and knowledge you'll need to make a solid decision on the quality of the restoration.

Having owned 60's and 70's Camaros and Corvettes, be aware that the relatively easy care of a newer muscle car is quite different from maintaining an oldie. I remember timing lights, gap gauges, etc. Good fun if you have the time and enjoy it. Not so much fun if you don't.

Keep us updated and I hope it is a tough decision because the Boss is a beauty!
 

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#5
It’s an opportunity to obtain a nice car that will get driven even less than your Hellcat! Hopefully it is a 95-100 point restoration that needs no work. Make sure it is not a clone. I agree it should retain it’s value.
 

SilverBillet

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#6
I think they are a little delicate? I would not race it if you get it. Back in 1970, I had a friend with a Boss 302 who wanted me to run it for him because I was particularly good at shifting a 4 speed. I did not miss a gear but it blew a piston the first run. I think the pistons were a common issue?
 

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#7
Awesome deal but and I have to say but are you buying the Boss to keep long term snd baby her? And or you just want to own one for awhile and have some fun? I own the new GT500 and other Mustangs as well but not the retros. The comfort of the HC and power will always surpass the Mustang. If it was me I’d have to come to closure it’s an investment purchase and not a fun purchase. The technology of today just kills the technology and or nit so much tech back in the day. My GT500 is not as comfortable to drive and border line practical as my Hellcats which I know for many would be like what and huh. But I own the different brands and can honestly tell you the GT500 is not a Hellcat and nit as comfortable to ride around in. And yeah worst case you part with your HC and down the road you pick up another one and good luck on your decision.
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#8
I own the modern version with a Whipple Supercharger and love it. Took it to our local road course for the first time and it was a hoot. I've owned a couple of older muscle cars and love the nostalgia but the performance isn't comparable to the Hellcat or any other modern muscle car. Not sure I would ever go back when the new ones are so nice. IMG_0128.jpg
 
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salopian

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Thread Starter #9
Hi all thanks for the replies

He is a collector and wants to get rid of a few. He also has a 69 for sale but this is not numbers matching and tbh u prefer the 70 with the skaker hood.

This will be a car will be keepers for ever. I like just going to meets and shows in my cat. I do use my cat for work when it's sunny now and again but this year not even put 5k miles on it (shitty British weather and covid)

Here's the link
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392872986753

I'm going to see it next week and see what I think. Just thinking to myself when will this opportunity come again? Can always get another HC I guess
 

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#10
Had to look twice...description had "right hand drive" and I was saying to myself...what?

Nice looking Boss. He's got Flow Masters on it and the Hurst shifter looks wild. I don't know Mustangs, is that the shifter the Boss came with from the factory?

Looked at the dealers site. Saw all the European cars I expected. The 383 Barracuda and Shelby Hurst were unexpected. The Ducati Senna caught my attention. If the dealer was stateside I'd be looking hard at that low mileage beauty!

Please take and post pics of your trip to the dealer...both the 69 and the 70 as well as the other eye candy on the floor! Best of luck and I hope you land what you want!
 

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Beautiful car. First thing I would do is loose those shitty tires for some original reproductions.
 
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#12
Nice color! I would want to be sure that was the original color...
 
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salopian

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Thread Starter #13
Nice color! I would want to be sure that was the original color...
No the original colour was Medium Blue. The prev owner who restored it changed it to grabber blue

I think they are a little delicate? I would not race it if you get it. Back in 1970, I had a friend with a Boss 302 who wanted me to run it for him because I was particularly good at shifting a 4 speed. I did not miss a gear but it blew a piston the first run. I think the pistons were a common issue?
I have read this before, did ford do a recall and done replacements. I have asked the seller.
 

The Englishman

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#14
Lovely looking car,about an hour from me,they had a ’Cuda a few weeks ago.
 

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#15
A repaint in a non-original color may hurt the value of the car @salopian
 
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Xylander

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#16
I've restored a number of 65 -70 Mustangs and have owned 5 of them myself. Just be very careful when inspecting the vehicle's provenance. The Boss 302 is one of the most cloned/fake Mustangs because it's so easy to do, visually. Take the paperwork, verify the VIN with Ford and ensure that the VIN is correct in all places on the car, at a minimum.

The paint color swap is a glaring warning sign to me. Who would intentionally torpedo the car's value like that? At auction that would reduce the value of an original/restored car by 30-40%.

I have seen about a 20:1 ratio of fake to real Boss 302 Mustangs in my day.
 
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salopian

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Thread Starter #17
I've restored a number of 65 -70 Mustangs and have owned 5 of them myself. Just be very careful when inspecting the vehicle's provenance. The Boss 302 is one of the most cloned/fake Mustangs because it's so easy to do, visually. Take the paperwork, verify the VIN with Ford and ensure that the VIN is correct in all places on the car, at a minimum.

The paint color swap is a glaring warning sign to me. Who would intentionally torpedo the car's value like that? At auction that would reduce the value of an original/restored car by 30-40%.

I have seen about a 20:1 ratio of fake to real Boss 302 Mustangs in my day.
Thanks for the reply. The seller is a collector and has another 2 bosses. He just wants to downsize his collection so he says.

So because its not original colour that's 20% down on price? I quite like the grabber blue but it definitely made me think why would you change the colour when the car is orgninal. I have researched to death on "colour change will it effect value" Some people say yes it does others say no as long as it is not a crazy colour 🤔🤔😌

It's hard to compare prices over here as there are none.

There was a nut and bolt yellow boss for sale for £70k 6 months ago I remember. The thing was immaculate from the photos on the show stands.

He has a red 69 as well but he said the 70 is in much better condition and the 69 has had an engine swap so none matching.

Iv done a bit of research so I'll check where the numbers are and the report. Other than rust and make sure the doors are good and everything works i think that will do for the 1st viewing.
 
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Xylander

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#18
I'm not saying it's a fake... just saying that the warning signs are there. Ensure the engine is not only the correct type of engine, but THE engine it was born with at the factory. Same with the transmission. At least here in the USA, if you go to a classic car show and look at the '69 -'70 Mustangs, find the modified/non-original entrants and note how many have Boss 302 heads on them. It's a common thing to do.

Thus, when you are looking at a real Boss 302, for it to bring Boss 302 money, it has to have either the original serialed Boss 302 engine/transmission -OR- provenance to state as to why it doesn't. For example, a warranty swap for defect by a dealership and they used a period manufactured, correct engine. But, what you end up seeing is, even with "real" Boss 302s, is during the 70s, a lot of people took those engines out of the cars and dropped in 4 or 6 cylinder engines. Over time, the old engine didn't hold up and the engine was junked. When they did a restore, they ended up using a 302 engine correct for the period, but not a Boss engine. They just used Boss heads and the correct intake, etc. I've seen this a lot as well.

But for the car to bring top dollar (depending on classification, aka Concourse restored, restored, factory original, original, etc.), it has to have the matching original engine and transmission. You get bonus points for if it has other original parts like power steering pump, alternator, brake master cylinder, etc... but the big 2 are the engine and transmission. If those numbers aren't correct, as a collector or purchaser of a collectible vehicle, I wouldn't buy it.

The color is a bit of sticky point. Serious collectors likely wouldn't buy it like that. Auctions are odd, and sometimes you can still sell one with the incorrect, but proper shade of paint for that model year. Depends on who's bidding. Boss 302s are a lot more common than the Boss 429s (top quality concourse models go for $135,000 or so vs. upwards of a million for a 429). So, believe it or not, collectors are more picky over the 302 at auction/sales. Quality paint swaps are expensive and the value of a 302 is nowhere near that of a "Boss 9." A Boss 429 could be painted rainbow sparkle with an air suspension, so long as the body was unmolested and it had the original engine and trans... someone will scoop it up just to convert it back to stock and flip it for a 6 figure profit. It's a bit harder to do that with an original Boss 302.
 
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salopian

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Thread Starter #19
I'm not saying it's a fake... just saying that the warning signs are there. Ensure the engine is not only the correct type of engine, but THE engine it was born with at the factory. Same with the transmission. At least here in the USA, if you go to a classic car show and look at the '69 -'70 Mustangs, find the modified/non-original entrants and note how many have Boss 302 heads on them. It's a common thing to do.

Thus, when you are looking at a real Boss 302, for it to bring Boss 302 money, it has to have either the original serialed Boss 302 engine/transmission -OR- provenance to state as to why it doesn't. For example, a warranty swap for defect by a dealership and they used a period manufactured, correct engine. But, what you end up seeing is, even with "real" Boss 302s, is during the 70s, a lot of people took those engines out of the cars and dropped in 4 or 6 cylinder engines. Over time, the old engine didn't hold up and the engine was junked. When they did a restore, the ended up using a 302 engine correct for the period, but not a Boss engine. They just used Boss heads and the correct intake, etc. I've seen this a lot as well.

But for the car to bring top dollar (depending on classification, aka Concourse restored, restored, factory original, original, etc.), it has to have the matching original engine and transmission. You get bonus points for if it has other original parts like power steering pump, alternator, brake master cylinder, etc... but the big 2 are the engine and transmission. If those numbers aren't correct, as a collector or purchaser of a collectible vehicle, I wouldn't buy it.

The color is a bit of sticky point. Serious collectors likely wouldn't buy it like that. Auctions are odd, and sometimes you can still sell one with the incorrect, but proper shade of paint for that model year. Depends on who's bidding. Boss 302s are a lot more common than the Boss 429s (top quality concourse models go for $135,000 or so vs. upwards of a million for a 429). So, believe it or not, collectors are more picky over the 302 at auction/sales. Quality paint swaps are expensive and the value of a 302 is nowhere near that of a "Boss 9." A Boss 429 could be painted rainbow sparkle with an air suspension, so long as the body was unmolested and it had the original engine and trans... someone will scoop it up just to convert it back to stock and flip it for a 6 figure profit. It's a bit harder to do that with an original Boss 302.
See. This is why I went modern muscle 😂. Being over the pond they are more expensive for American cars. It could be a while before another one pops up over here maybe years 😬

Check vin (windshield, drivers door, engine bay)

Transmission..... Not asked about this actually will ask the question.

It has a Marti report

I'm debating going down now as its a 5 hour round trip and I know if I sold my HC I could get it cheaper if I wanted it.

Anyway its 0030hrs so I need sleep

Thanks again
 

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#20
Yep, I wish you the best of luck. Buying a classic takes a very meticulous mindset. They have 50+ years of history and 50+ years of potential problems to sort out. That's one reason why I like auto brokering classics so much. It's a real detective's job on some of them to try and figure out if it has the right gear or not.

I brokered a deal on a low original miles '66 Corvette L72 (427) a few years ago. Took 2 years to make that deal happen. The owner was the 4th owner and the 2nd owner took the 427 out in 1974 and replaced it with a 305. He sold the 427 to a drag racer who abused the hell out of it for 10 years and sold it on. It changed hands a few times and ended up in a junkyard 1,800mi away from where the car was in the present day. I ended up finding the gutted and parted out block and was able to bring the car and the engine back together for the prospective buyer who wanted to fully restore it. The last time I checked, the new owner was still restoring it (been in progress for about 3 years). The reason this is such a massive undertaking is because the new owner is the grandson of the original owner and he wants to restore it back to pristine, original condition with NOS parts so it looks the same as it did when he used to ride in his granddad's Corvette when he was a kid.

Personally, I have owned a couple of classic Fords and restored a 67 Mustang convertible myself. All these lessons I tried to pass your away above, I learned the hard way on that '67. I was only 17 when I bought it from a used car lot in 1994. It had GTA fender badges, a 289 Hi Po engine and so on. It also had a compromised frame, and its 289 Hi Po (K code) was actually a C code (2 barrel) engine that the owner had upbadged to the K standard. An earlier restoration had done some body work on the front end and gotten rid of the original VIN. Back then I didn't know pretty much anything and paid way too much for it. I ended up sinking 2x the purchase price in frame and body repairs after the car started to sag in the middle like a banana. It also had the wrong transmission. Granted, it had a better C-6 transmission than the factory C-4, but it was the wrong trans. I later learned that the 289 in the car wasn't even an automotive engine in the first place. The engine in the car was originally purchased as a crate motor in 1966 and with a marine conversion kit, served as a BOAT MOTOR for 20 years before it somehow ended up in my Mustang. I never did find out what happened to the car's original 289.

So, I learned on that car for the 10 years I owned it as to just how terrible of a purchase I had made. I used that experience and bought a '70 Torino 429 SCJ that was matching numbers all around and I enjoyed it and showed it for years until the value got so high on it I couldn't bear to drive it anymore (parts were a chore to find and I don't let my cars sit... they're driven or sold).
 
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